Category: Geeks r Us
Hi all!
Just recently, my laptop decided it was done with me and it broke down. It'll cost more to fix it than to just buy a new one, so we figure we'll just buy a new one rather than bother to spend the money on fixing the old one. But we're not sure how well Windows Vista works with Jaws, because we've gotten a bunch of mixed opinions. Does anyone here use Jaws and Vista? Does it work well, or is it pretty hard to use? Should we bother or should we just see if we can get an old XP machine?
Thanks!
Scratch
I would say get an older one because if you are not going to be doing resource intensive processing or anything there is no need to complicate your computer with vista. When I've used it it was sluggish at best, and do get an adiquit machine to run vista, desktop or laptop alike, you need at least a dual core with 3 gigs of ram and I'm not kidding on that point. And if all you will be doing is simple stuff then an older machine is the way to go. Jaws was sluggish, and did not read UAC dialogues, among other things I did not like.
Bottom line, is base your choice on cost, and usage of the computer. Vista, will, no doubt, slow it down. Stay away from Acer, because of the low quality used in their parts. I would say hp or compaq, or even dell, if you were going to get a new one, but make sure you get enough ram to run vista, if you decide you actually want to risk the cash and run it.
Good luck with your decision.
I had a feeling u would post in here cody, ad i agree with u on that point. U need a good running machine to run vista, and its a good idea to go with the machine, based on what u r gonna do with it. For me, I don't do a lot of heavy stuff, but run a shoutcast server, a FTP, and play some muds, internet, miranda, and skype. So, XP as the way to go for me.
I use Vista with a Compaq and 2 gigs of RAM. To be totally honest, it's never been sluggish for me. I've never had any problems with it. I guess part of it depends on what its primary use would be, but I use mine for getting online, chatting, some editing ... nothing really heavy. I think my only issue with it is that it takes Jaws longer to load, but once it loads, it's fine.
I agree with the 3 GB ram and dual core processor with Vista thing. However, JAWS 9 does read UAC dialogues, and on the machine my Father built for himself, JAWS and vista are a dream together. Don't run from Vista, it's time to get used to the fact that Vista, for now at least, is the latest operating system from Microsoft, which is going to be even more widely used. I am far from calling Vista my favorite OS, but it isn't as bad as people make it out to be.
arg. microsoft is pledging support of windows xp until 214 (and probably a bit longer). In the mean time, those that decide to stick with it have to put up with a horribly designed paranoia security system.
Over the passed year, and I'll just add this in, that I haven't been very impressed. People are running from vista because of the cost of just running the thing. You need a dream machine just to run it, and people, or most people don't have that money. And even though it might look sexy, it is quite complicated and people that are used to the classic style will run for their lives. Especially older folks. This is the fact and we can't deny it. I will keep using xp for as long as I'd like and no one and no thing will make me use Vista. So the point that we have to get used to it is quite untrue.
Hey, Juan, 314? do u mean 2014? If it was 214, I didn't even know they had computers were invented in 214 A.D. :D Mike.
To the posts that mentioned 2014 as the cut off date for xp, you're all correct.
Its officially April 8, 2014, to be exact.
I won't run Vista either for most of the reasons mentioned above, there're ways to get computers with XP on them still, if necessary, but its not easy, depending on which company you buy from.
And this is also for a limited time, forHP as an example, until July 2009.
url: http://www.pcworld.com/printable/article/id,148450/printable.html
first of all, i got my laptop for around 700 dollars, 1.7 dual core. it may only have a gig of ram, but it runs jaws and vista ok. sure it lags, but after being on dialup for most of my life, it's nothing to me.
if 700 bucks is too much for you to pay for a computer, you deserve what you get.
sure, i love XP, but i'e gotten used to vista now, and wouldn't go back now, even if i was payed too.
To post 10: did you even read my post?
To the original poster, make your decision based on your own needs, not on what myself or anyone else tells you, its your machine, your money, not ours...:)
Thanks for everybody's help with this. :) I think we've got a plan now.
Again, thanks. :)
Scratch
first of all, i got my laptop for around 700 dollars, 1.7 dual core. it may only have a gig of ram, but it runs jaws and vista ok. sure it lags, but after
being on dialup for most of my life, it's nothing to me.
hahaha, do you still use tapes? Rewinding, fast forwarding... While I bypass you with a simple touch of a button to jump to the beginning of a track and or to the next one.
My point is just cause you're use to the slowness doesn't mean that everyone else here is. Speak for yourself please.
I had to go back to dialup recently and its crap, annoying, and not even worth the $1.5 phone wire that it travels through.
so yes, vista in short is slow as hell unless you have 2+gb, your post, in attempt to defend the viability of vista, actually confirms its inequities with 1gb of ram.
Thank you, again, SKPoet. You are my hero!
I'll continue the flamewar which is gonna start over Vista, seeing as post 13 did a nice job of it...:)
Regarding Windows Vista, you think Vista is bad, hell the fuck no, Windows 7 will be much, much worse.
I remember a skype conversation that I had a few weeks or days ago, where I said, that when Windows 7 comes out, those who're Vista fanboys will orgasm over Windows 7, just like they probably are doing so at this moment...:)
Seeing as Windows 7 will be built on the same core as Vista, there're be the same problems as there are with Windows 7, if Microsoft doesn't get it right.
We'll see what the future holds, to get more info on Windows 7, go to extreme tech, and look for Windows 7, in the opinions search box.
I'll correct part of the last post, it was pcworld, as well as extreme tech that has Windows 7 Info.
http://www.pcworld.com/printable/article/id,147970/printable.html
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2317347,00.asp
Unfortunately I don't think Microsoft will get it right in the next version of windows. Not with the pie menus and group bar additions that doesn't sound like anything jaws or any other screen reader would like, as if accessibility isn't bad enough already. Thank you Rat, once again, for showing your ignorance. As soon as you mention dialup you are doomed to be laughed at. I seem to remember a topic about you wanting to get a network set up. but before you do, you really need to get dsl, at least. Rat, I need no comments, please. Me, spike and SKPoet have made our points.
Rat, please post your boot times for boot up and shut down. Then, run Crisis and do a couple of torrents, burn some cd's and tell me Vista is great. Oh but thats right, you don't have any more resources left hahahahahahahahahahahahahahha. But now you probably have no speech and task manager reports 150 processes. But don't worry, Vista is great.
Dear chicken scratch, I am sorry for the flame war that has been started, but this is actually fun to bring out the ignorance in people. All seriousness though, xp and a dual core will be just fine.
Regarding Crysis, the game was mentioned, not cause its blind friendly, hell the fuck no, but cause it shows you exactly what your computer is made of.
The best computer as of this writing's scores is at: http://www.pcmag.com/print_article2/0,1217,a%253D229556,00.asp
Follow those settings, Rat, and then give us the frame rates at 1200 by 1024, with every option turned up as high as it will go.
If your frame rates are between 60-65, then I'll consider your system acceptable, in my opinion.
After you're done with those tests, encode a dvdrip to avi, using xvid, 2pass, mp3 vbr, using lame.
Use the following settings, 640 by 352 screen, and let us know how much time it takes...:)
enjoy your life, and post the relevant portions of logs only...:)
Ok, have to say two things. 1. to cody and richard, wow harsh much? second to rat, I'm not paying 700 bucks for a laptop. I'm sorry, but for the things that I'd like to use a laptop for, i'm not going to pay that much. Now, our old laptop that my sister uses, is running XP, but who knows how much life it has left in it. My parents said that if it goes, their probably buy a new one. I'm hoping that they buy an XP, so I can help them with it. I have verry verry little knowledge of vista, so if they buy one, well, 1. Their going to spend a huge amount of money, and 2. I hope the instructions r easy to follow, because I don't know how to set up the wireless or anything on it. Well, theirs my thoughts. Mike.
O, i forgot. SKPoet, excellent post.
Mike why do you agree with other people even if they say the same thing as I do? We are not harsh, just truthful.
Here're my system processes with amount of total ram used:
Processes: 21 CPU Usage: 20% Commit Charge: 170M / 3925M
the 3925 mb is including the paging file, this is after startup.
I don't know, maybe its just the way they say it? I don't know, it just sounds different, somehow.
I am using vista. When I first got my machine it was very slow. half of the programs didn't work. Now that I have the latest version of jaws, it works quite well. I am going to point out what other people have been saying. If you're going to run vista, I was get about 2 or 3 gigs of ram on it. I am using an hp right now. I have no complaints
Point being that an end user that uses only word precessing shouldn't need that much ram or for that matter that much hd space. I can run xp on 256 mb of ram and it works just fine.
how come vista takes so much space?
I run vista on 1gb, in a del desktop and have no problems.
for you xp lovers out there, if you don't know, sense june 30th, you can no longer buy xp commercially, so if you plan on ever getting a new machine, your going to have vista.
H
"for you xp lovers out there, if you don't know, sense june 30th, you can no longer buy xp commercially, so if you plan on ever getting a new machine, your going to have vista."
http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&cat=prod&k=lightest&rpp=12&p=1&subcat=sys%2fnotebooks&rf=all&nk=f&sort=K&nf=26748%7e0%7e249730&navla=26748%7e0%7e249730&ira=False&~srd=False&ipsys=False&advsrch=False&~ck=anav
Took me all of 20 seconds to find.
d430
d630
just to name a few.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hp+laptops+with+%22windows+xp%22
Took me 10 seconds to type in hp laptops with windows xp and hit send then brows through to see the result
You can also customize sony computers with windows xp
This is on saturday July 19th, 2008 at 6-54p.m
You can also purchase windows xp cd as well.
Now if you stated that one won't be able to purchase a system with windows xp off the shelf at a brick and morter store, then you might have some credents there.
Research before making such a statement. Trying to make fools of us techies who have the know hows to use google.com only exposes your level of ignorance.
SKPoet thank you, once again. Post 27, I don't know what worlde you are living in but 1 gb of ram isn't going to get you far at all. Clearly you are a fool who will bend over backwards for billie G and keep buying the hardware just to accomodate the software and gladly shove hundreds into his pocket. Clearly bringing out ignorance. But, we won't be seeing post 27 running crisis or doing torrents and burnign CD's, editing files/video converting/whatever else. Come on, do it. Oh but thats right, by the time you try to task manager shows 150 processes and speech isn't responding and a hacker has already gotten a hold of you through IE 7. This emphasizes my point to split these boards so we get rid of the know nothing people keep them in their own newbe area. Sheeeeeesh thick skulled admins on ehre. But noooooo'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o I'm the bad guy and I'm always wrong.
To post 27:
Read all of my posts, I know they're fucking harsh, but so is life...
I give urls to backup my info, you don't.
What're your system specs, processer, I know you got 1 gb ram.
If you plan to work in the IT industry, you loving Vista may not get you fired, bt it'll get you laughed at.
Most corporations will not switch to Vista, Internal business applications will not run under it, and developers don't like to code for it.
Vista should be renamed Mollenium Edition 2, imo.
first link, corporations, and their feelings towards Vistha: http://www.businessweek.com/print/technology/content/jun2008/tc20080610_435192.htm
second link why developers won't program for Vista: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=printArticleBasic&articleId=9085698
SKPoet, nice. Cody, and spike, nice. Post 27, your an idiot. Cody's right (wow, when have i said that before), good luck with doing anything with that machine.
I just wanted to say that I run vista on both of my machines and it works perfectly fine. Both laptop and desktop run it fine. Both machines also both run jaws 9 and neither of the machines lag at all. Here is the current stats from task manager. on my laptop.Processes: 68 CPU Usage: 20% Physical Memory: 37% This is with 3 messengers jaws firefox and vista running with antivirus running in the backround but not currently scanning. So as you can see the person saying vista has 150 processes is not correct
To post 33:
The person who'd said that Vista had 150 processes running was being sarcastic, if you couldn't tell.
What're your system specs for both the laptop and desktop, cpu, ram in total?
nice job, skpoet!
I have vista on a dell Inspiron 530 and it works great. stuff from system information:
OS Name Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Basic
Version 6.0.6001 Service Pack 1 Build 6001
Other OS Description Not Available
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name DEREK-PC
System Manufacturer Dell Inc.
System Model Inspiron 530
System Type X86-based PC
Processor Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2140 @ 1.60GHz, 1600 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 2 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date Dell Inc. 1.0.7, 11/3/2007
SMBIOS Version 2.5
Windows Directory C:Windows
System Directory C:Windowssystem32
Boot Device DeviceHarddiskVolume3
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "6.0.6001.18000"
User Name Derek-PCDerek
Time Zone Eastern Daylight Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 2.00 GB
Total Physical Memory 1.99 GB
Available Physical Memory 827 MB
Total Virtual Memory 4.22 GB
Available Virtual Memory 2.89 GB
Page File Space 2.28 GB
Page File C:pagefile.sys
um...
Available Physical Memory 827 MB
Total physical memory 2.0 gb
Total Virtual Memory 4.22 GB
Available Virtual Memory 2.89 GB
I'm sorry but you better tell me you have some high intensity stuff running that is taking up 1.1 gigs of physical ram if you have 2 gigs of it. If you are going to say skype then yes that takes up a lot of ram, but not that much. Not to mention you shouldn't need nearly 5 gigs of virtual ram.
That is embarrassing in and of itself. An o/s should need about 150 megs for itself that would seem reasonable, maybe that is a bit overkill but not 1.1 gigs as showcased in your specs. I wouldn't be surprised if that virtual memory is used more than once in a week.
I've posted my stuff beforehand, regarding the processes and cpu usage.
Post 36, what the hell are you running that takes damn near 2 gb ram? photoshop, cad/cam applications?
I have home premium with 3 gigs of ram. I originally bought a 64 bit and found out it doesn't work with jaws, and returned the computer. Do NOT buy 64 bit Vista as Hal, Win Eyes and JAWS do NOT work with it!
Yes, what were u running that needed that much? I run XP on a 10 gig hard drive, i'm with 512 megs of ram. With no supernode for skype, it runs alright, even with skype in a call. What were u running that caused u to be using that much.
Mike is a great example of a perfect computer. I installed xp for him, and made sure it ran fine for him before I gave it to him. however, if you were running linux/mac 64 bit would work for sure.
post 36:
you must have a lot of applications running to take that much ram.
I am a computer? I thought I was a human. Wow, how things change.
I know, I knew it, mike! I thought you were a bot, and I was right! hahahaha! Not sure what all I had running, but it involved tons of firefox tabs, quicktime, Skype, WLM, JAWS, AVG...
The following was written in my Live Journal in march, and is opinions based in fact and experience. Not everyone had the same experiences I did, I'll say it strait. We're talking about new computers here, BTW.
To the blog poster, this goes to show that machines are sold, and have been sold that just are not equipped for the software shoved on to them. I have been experiencing things like this for a while, when I bought my first box, and when I bought this laptop. this is a fact of marketting. However, Rat and company will continue to bend over backwards for Billie G.
Question, who is billy G?
um...mike...you set yourself up to be flamed here. None Its BHil Gates.
BHil Gates: THat sounds like a name from... some terrorist? organization.. its b, i, l, l, gates. At least ya got the last name right.
Grrrrrrr fuck it, you got my point
Whoops. Now i feel really stupid. O well, thanks for the explanation.
wait... fuck what? your sense of ambiguity is showing...
I don't think he knows just what he wants to do right now juan.
your mom..
what he wants to do... or, rather, whom?
I like pie
umm, now he'd be like "all your ... erhm, pies, are belong to us"
That's my line u stealer! how dare u!
now its mine, my evil twin decapitated me and replaced my head with a pie. so nwo I like pie
No! he will not take my pie! its mine!
screw you, I ate it already!
no! give it back! give it back!
goes, to the bathroom brb with your pie.
o, forget it. I don't want it back if that's what u have to do to give it back to me. Thanks anyway.
really? it's fresh.
and that fresh... object, is what microsoft has been coming up recently, so they are playing catch up with Squiggles... huh?
ok, 1. that's sick. 2. i don't like warm pie. 3. can we get back on the subject of vista and jaws? please?
yum........screw torrents and jaws/vista. I'm enjoying this pie
Well, u do that. Enjoy eating that pie, that just came out of ... never mind.
Can we get back to the Jaws and Vista/Windows 7 topic?
Do we have to?
That is why this board was created, not to waste database space. Personally, I would be happy to demonstrate anything you ask for in audio with Vista and JAWS< provided you tell me what you want demonstrated.
I know that we gotta get it back on track. I said that same thing a few posts back.
Good morning all. This seems like the perfect place to put this post. Let's change the mood a little here. I am going to be giving a presentation on Vista at a conference my place of employment is holding. I'm not really sure what to say about it. Here's what I would love to know. What are the good things about Vista? What things in the OS are and are not accessible to Jaws or other screen readers? What enhanced security features are available and are they accessible using a screen reader? What do you find to be the hardest thing to do in Vista compared to XP? What have you found easier to do in Vista compared to XP? What backup utilities does vista have and are they accessible to screen readers? Let's try and keep this organized please? I sincerely am looking forward to these answers and thank you for your help.
Good morning all. This seems like the perfect place to put this post. Let's change the mood a little here. I am going to be giving a presentation on Vista at a conference my place of employment is holding. I'm not really sure what to say about it. Here's what I would love to know. What are the good things about Vista? What things in the OS are and are not accessible to Jaws or other screen readers? What enhanced security features are available and are they accessible using a screen reader? What do you find to be the hardest thing to do in Vista compared to XP? What have you found easier to do in Vista compared to XP? What backup utilities does vista have and are they accessible to screen readers? Let's try and keep this organized please? I sincerely am looking forward to these answers and thank you for your help.
Nothing good about vista unless you gut it and things are a pain as far as accessibility goes.
When the keyboard on my Father's machine in replaced (It was a $5 keyboard that already died), I'll take another look and list what I can find. The way I tested Vista was doing some of the more common tasks that I've ever done (playing media, extracting CD's, writing documents, etc), and saw how things worked. I did get user account controll dialogues, and I remember clearly being able to accept them.
Regarding the Vista thing, I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I really don't care.
Check the following links out, yes, actually read the info presented, and then tell me Vista is all good and wonderful.
http://www.grc.com/sn/sn-073.htm
http://www.grc.com/sn/sn-074.htm
http://www.grc.com/sn/sn-075.htm
http://www.grc.com/sn/sn-076.htm
http://www.grc.com/sn/sn-077.htm
http://practical-tech.com/uncategorized/vista-adoption-going-no-where-it-considering-linux-and-mac-instead/
Wow spike, u really did your homework.
I personally don't have that big of an issue with Vista. Before I bought my notebook, I was afraid of using Vista because I had heard so many terrible things about it. Well, I bought my first notebook, and it's definitely not the nightmare I thought it was going to be. I have an HP with three GB ram and a dual core processor. I definitely don't have the issue of sluggishness that many others complain about. My computer boots up, shuts down, browses, and does everything else at a very good speed. There were, and still are, a few things that are new; things that I needed to get used to, but again, it's not the hellish nightmare I thought it was going to be.
Post 80, look at your hardware. you need to buy the hardware to throw at it. If you don't buy the hardware you don't get any performance.
I just got done installing home basic on the following machine
processor single core 2.0 ghz 1 gb ram 80 gb hard drive
This should be way more than sufficient to run just an operating system and even after isntalling jaws, i still didn't have any access to UAC dialogues, and I still didn't have adiquit performace. In fact, and I have people who have watched me install this, that just to boot up and continue installing jaws took about 2 hours. I am not even joking.
For those of you who don't know this, but the timed evaluation for jaws actually starts when you start the installer. I know this because after I installed jaws I had only about 10 minutes left.
So, this proves that anyone who has a dual core with 3 + gigs of ram, should have no business even posting here.
U don't have a a sluggish responsiveness, because u have 3 gigs of ram.
We don't have any business posting here? We can post wherever the hell we want to. The original poster was asking about JAWS and Vista, so I gave my opinion. I know that I don't have to deal with the sluggishness because of how many gigs of ram I have. That's besides the point. Just because I have a dual core processor and three gigs of ram, doesn't mean that I'm not entitled to post here. Another thing to those who think that you have to pay an astronomical amount of money for this type of computer, you don't. I didn't have to pay that much at all, and I got an excellent computer.
Another thing to those who think that you have to pay an astronomical
amount of money for this type of computer, you don't. I didn't have to pay that much at all, and I got an excellent computer.
hmmmmm notice he didn't specify a price tag. But for a vista machine, a price tag of over 700 should be expected. 3 gig of ram minimum. I don't want to hear people telling me or other they have no issues because we all know why which is why I said don't post here. I never said anywhere that you never had the right to in the first place so don't put words in my mouth. Why buy a machine that is soiled with a piece of shit operating system look at my test install, when you could buy a mac mini for $600 and better performance and you don't have to worry about viruses? We're dealing with facts here. But thats fine.
To post 83:
What machine do you actually have? I ask so that I can look it up, to see what kinda reviews it got, and what its benchmark scores are.
And yes, I agree with post 84, Mac Minis are nice, and cheep, stable, and good server machines, if you don't put too much of a load on them.
I personally wouldn't use my IMac as a server machine, the thing gets hot, and I didn't exactly pay for it, it was a present.
I've given my specs for the machine in other posts, so I won't repeat them here, but I mainly use it for light web surfing, and will start doing mysql stuff on it, in the near future.
Mysql takes up resources,I know, but I do want to see what my machine can actually do, how much I can actually throw at it...:)
SQL will probably run fine, considering you have 4 gigs of ram. iMacs don't get quite that hot. Anyway you didn't specify
My bad
2.44 ghz Duel Core
4 gb 667 mhz ddr2 ram
250 gb hd
gigabit ethernet card
airport extreme wireless card
firewire card
20 inch monitor, unsure of the current screen resolution
Mac OSX Leopard 10.5.4 with all applied updates
yup and well worth the price. 64 bit is just another added bonus.